Author Topic: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues  (Read 2237 times)

Trackdaygod

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SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« on: January 19, 2021, 03:18:24 PM »
Got a 2021 300 se Factory with starting issues. Fine when warmed up, but pig to start from cold. First 2 0r 3 button presses starter doesn't engage, just makes strange noises. Then when it does engage, it can take 30 seconds plus to fire up often with a loud backfire at some point in the proceedings. Bike has about 25 hours on it and problem seems to be getting worse. Carburation seems spot on (as in it runs well once started). Haven't tried a new plug yet but in my experience it's never the plug and it shouldn't really have broken down yet with only 25 hours on it.
Any ideas guys?
Cheers

Gartzza

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2021, 12:15:24 AM »
Got a 2021 300 se Factory with starting issues. Fine when warmed up, but pig to start from cold. First 2 0r 3 button presses starter doesn't engage, just makes strange noises. Then when it does engage, it can take 30 seconds plus to fire up often with a loud backfire at some point in the proceedings. Bike has about 25 hours on it and problem seems to be getting worse. Carburation seems spot on (as in it runs well once started). Haven't tried a new plug yet but in my experience it's never the plug and it shouldn't really have broken down yet with only 25 hours on it.
Any ideas guys?
Cheers

Please check another threads, in which this issue is widely discussed.  :)

rkm

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2021, 08:32:29 AM »
The issue with the 2021 is not the same and not widely discussed on here as the previous poster claims. Something is wrong with the mapping leading to a loss of spark on cranking. The spark usually only happens when you first hit the starter button or when you let off, hence the backfire. There is an update map that cures this issue. Until you can get the new program, short button presses ease starting. Make sure your dealer reads the mapping procedure before they attempt. The new cdi can be damaged if you dont follow the new procedure.

The starter not engaging at first sounds like a bad battery. Is it a groaning noise or a freespin noise?

eralha

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2021, 01:30:10 AM »
Hi i have a 2021 300 SE and i can confirm that i have this issue, at first i would insist in pressing the button and the motor would just spins and then backfires. now if the bike would not want to start i just wait a couple of seconds and try again usually it starts right off. I didnīt know about the maping, i will talk to my dealer to see.

Also some times the bendix will not engage in first try, need to try 2 or 3 more times.

And don't let the battery gone flat you will not be able to bump start it as it happened to me.

Gartzza

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2021, 03:44:26 AM »
The issue with the 2021 is not the same and not widely discussed on here as the previous poster claims. Something is wrong with the mapping leading to a loss of spark on cranking. The spark usually only happens when you first hit the starter button or when you let off, hence the backfire.

"rkm", you may be right. I have 2019 model and I had starting problems from the beginning. I thought I tackled them with better battery, new start button, new plugs, new wire harness, new relay or with new cdi ignition and updated ecu, but no. Now I have the same ignition system and updated ecu as new bikes (Kokusan cdi model, right?). Maybe now the reason for problems is different than at first, but the outcome is the same - bike starts up differently from time to time: not at all/poorly/with minor problems/normally  :( At this moment, the spark happens exactly as you are describing and then for no visible reason, it becomes normal.

"Trackdaygod", welcome to the club and hopefully you'll get problem solved faster!

eralha

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2021, 07:10:13 AM »
The issue with the 2021 is not the same and not widely discussed on here as the previous poster claims. Something is wrong with the mapping leading to a loss of spark on cranking. The spark usually only happens when you first hit the starter button or when you let off, hence the backfire.

"rkm", you may be right. I have 2019 model and I had starting problems from the beginning. I thought I tackled them with better battery, new start button, new plugs, new wire harness, new relay or with new cdi ignition and updated ecu, but no. Now I have the same ignition system and updated ecu as new bikes (Kokusan cdi model, right?). Maybe now the reason for problems is different than at first, but the outcome is the same - bike starts up differently from time to time: not at all/poorly/with minor problems/normally  :( At this moment, the spark happens exactly as you are describing and then for no visible reason, it becomes normal.

"Trackdaygod", welcome to the club and hopefully you'll get problem solved faster!

what i do to not feel this issue and i almost dont see it as a problem is as rkm sayd, "short button presses ease starting." dont inssist with long button presses, if the bike does not start right away leave the button and wait a couple seconds then try again this will give time for the electric ignition to work properly. At least is what i do with success.


erdat

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2021, 08:02:01 AM »
Dear rkm,
what's the likely cause of the freespin?
-erdat
'15 SE-R 250
Ankara, Turkey

rkm

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2021, 08:46:50 AM »
The issue with the 2021 is not the same and not widely discussed on here as the previous poster claims. Something is wrong with the mapping leading to a loss of spark on cranking. The spark usually only happens when you first hit the starter button or when you let off, hence the backfire.

"rkm", you may be right. I have 2019 model and I had starting problems from the beginning. I thought I tackled them with better battery, new start button, new plugs, new wire harness, new relay or with new cdi ignition and updated ecu, but no. Now I have the same ignition system and updated ecu as new bikes (Kokusan cdi model, right?). Maybe now the reason for problems is different than at first, but the outcome is the same - bike starts up differently from time to time: not at all/poorly/with minor problems/normally  :( At this moment, the spark happens exactly as you are describing and then for no visible reason, it becomes normal.

"Trackdaygod", welcome to the club and hopefully you'll get problem solved faster!

Did you get the new GET box upgrade? If so, you need the new update. It wasnt released until the end of November so I doubt very many have used it yet.

If you have freespin sometimes but not all, I would start with cleaning and lubing the bendix. I like to soak them in atf for a while to do both jobs.

I always add an auxiliary ground from the battery to the subframe. Itll help/prevent all sorts of issues.

Gartzza

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2021, 01:42:53 AM »

Did you get the new GET box upgrade? If so, you need the new update. It wasnt released until the end of November so I doubt very many have used it yet.

If you have freespin sometimes but not all, I would start with cleaning and lubing the bendix. I like to soak them in atf for a while to do both jobs.

I always add an auxiliary ground from the battery to the subframe. Itll help/prevent all sorts of issues.

Do you mean another updated for ECU? I got mine updated maybe in early summer, so then it's not the latest one.

rkm

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2021, 08:56:29 AM »
Its an additional box to add to the system. They make an upgrade kit but I cant seem to find the part number right now.

Trackdaygod

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2021, 09:28:35 AM »
Ok cheers for all the advice guys. I will contact my dealer re. the remapping option.
Quite annoying for a brand new bike though.

erdat

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2021, 10:24:54 AM »
Today we rode three Sherco's, two were 2021 and both did backfire, one only once the other one twice. The temperature was about 14 degrees Celsius, nice weather. Nothing extrem, mostly single track trail riding with some steep climbs. Interesting. By the way one would have the fan frequently on while the other didn't.
-erdat
'15 SE-R 250
Ankara, Turkey

JPringle

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2021, 07:35:04 PM »
Hi Ya'll, from Texas

New 21' ES 300 owner here also with starting issues. Ive been checking out the stock jetting and finding it is not quite what the manual states. The needle stop is position 3 not 2 and the pilot jet is 40 not 42. Main jet is per manual. Ive been out on it once and with rain and ice in Central Texas, it will be a couple weeks before I can get out again.

The problem sounds similar though. Spinning to get her started and hard to start with the clutch in. Spins.

I had asked the dealer if there were any may updated that needed attention before I took delivery. They said no.

Any advise or solutions would be appreciated. My next time out will be adjusting air mixture as it is definitely rich on the lower range

Thanks

Gartzza

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2021, 10:46:24 PM »
Hi Ya'll, from Texas

New 21' ES 300 owner here also with starting issues. Ive been checking out the stock jetting and finding it is not quite what the manual states. The needle stop is position 3 not 2 and the pilot jet is 40 not 42. Main jet is per manual. Ive been out on it once and with rain and ice in Central Texas, it will be a couple weeks before I can get out again.

The problem sounds similar though. Spinning to get her started and hard to start with the clutch in. Spins.

I had asked the dealer if there were any may updated that needed attention before I took delivery. They said no.

Any advise or solutions would be appreciated. My next time out will be adjusting air mixture as it is definitely rich on the lower range

Thanks

It's more like that problem is electrical than about jetting, if you have jetting even close to what it should be. First advise: get strongest possible battery, which you can fit the box - CCA (cold cranking performance) at least 200, better 240-300. When starting in the cold, do first short pushes (1-2 sec) and have 30-60sec breaks in between, in order not to empty the battery (this concerns about litium batteries). This is important to get battery warmed up and maintain the capacity. If starting is problematic after this, there might be many different issues to be checked, but first I would ask dealer to update CDI ecu box, as your bike is new and it has new type of ignition compared to previous models (at least until 2019 ignition coil was traditional). Updates exists.

JPringle

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Re: SE 300 factory 2021 - Starting issues
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2021, 06:58:54 AM »
Thank you, Gartzza

The power from the battery in warm conditions a week ago seemed fine. With the spooge coming from the pipe, it equated to lower end richness, once going it was good, snappy power. I'll look at the battery issue too.

Does anyone find the "soft-hard" mapping function even useful? I usually leave it on full power and go. Not sure its worth the trouble and cost.

Thanks!!